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The Outbound Engineering Thesis to Land 30+ Demos/Month/Seat in 90 Days or Less with 0 SDRs

Written by Joe Petruzzi, Principal & CEO at Waylan Consulting Group

“A majority of the time, automated outbound campaigns fail because the messages, trust-building and follow ups are viewed as not genuine, unclear, or untrustworthy because of a lack of engineering & storytelling skills.”

If you're more of a video person, watch the video version here:

The Reason for Outbound Engineering

Here’s the truth: you can absolutely make outbound marketing yield 30+/demos/month/seat, not sound spammy at all AND without hiring more SDRs, but you can’t use what everyone else is using

Outbound marketing is broken because of saturation and the ease of entry. Think about it, everyone and their grandma can go buy a LinkedIn tool, or spin up an email, and start spamming people on social media in an hour.

This means that we’ve put the power of making or breaking a business and their reputation in the hands of people who have no idea how to market themselves, and unfortunately, were promised that they could get more clients by using an automation tool alone.

It’s unfortunate, and we do see a few softwares out there adding in templates to help users perform better, but they’re all outdated, and total trash if we’re being honest.

Additionally, gurus, sales coaches and marketers have been hammering the same stuff for years. It's bland, generic, and doesn’t work anymore.

The only way for B2B SaaS companies to stand out and actually, efficiently and profitably land demos from outbound with this deep saturation is to use outbound engineering.

What is Outbound Engineering?

I had coined this phrase because of the connections I made with my previous career. For those that don’t know, I actually have a degree in robotics engineering and was previously a control systems engineer.

So I used to have to plan out the solution to a problem in the most efficient and cost effective way possible that would yield the best possible result and not mitigate performance. This meant thinking ahead to the worst case scenarios, and planning for them in advance.

I also had to integrate many different products, programs and applications to make the whole thing work effectively.

Well that’s exactly what we’re doing here!

The problem is getting personal, funny, and converting outbound campaigns sent out at scale in an automated fashion to yield the most amount of appointments possible with the least amount of work. We have to think ahead to what the prospects will think and what the worst case will be in each situation. We’re also integrating different automations, follow ups, softwares, etc.

At the end of the day, outbound engineering is the science of delivering an automated cadence to a niche group of prospects that yields as many converting replies and appointments/demos as possible.

With that understanding, there are 4 crucial steps I’ve worked through with my own growth and my clients that need to be a part of your outbound marketing efforts.

Step 1 - Design a CLEAR Message with a CLEAR Outcome and Prove it with Case Studies Simultaneously

The old way of building trust with a cold prospect was to throw together a mushy marketing message about features on your website and linkedin, have no case studies and just throw it out there.

Of course, prospects did not convert. They didn’t understand how your product helped them, and EVEN if they did, they didn’t believe you because there was no proof of it.

The new way of positioning yourself is crafting a CLEAR message with a CLEAR outcome and proving it with case studies simultaneously.

When you can do this, prospects completely understand what you do + they have trust in you to start the next stage of your sales process.

Crafting a CLEAR Message with a CLEAR outcome and backing it up with case studies will allow you to gain trust 2-3X quicker because you are closing the loop of discovering your software, understanding your software, and proving your software is legitimate in one swoop. It goes like this:

[I understand this software helps people like me] -> [I understand this is how it helps me] -> [I understand this has helped other people like me already]

Here’s an example. This is Adams profile, he has a clear message on his profile, and clear case studies to match:

And here are some responses to his initial, non-selling connection message. He simply asked to connect, and these prospects already wanted to bite:

What if I have multiple niches?

You want to select the niche that either A. Pays you the most or B. You give the most value to through your software

Where do I post this/use this?

The easiest places to post and get eyeballs on are your LinkedIn profile and your website.

How long should my message be?

There’s no number limit necessarily, you just want it to be concise+clear. That being said, it’s better to have a 300 character message that speaks right to the bones of your prospect than a 5-word-long slogan that says nothing.

How many case studies do I need?

As many as possible

Step 2 - Use Excruciating Detail with Your Copy and Become an Outbound Engineer

When you used to run automated outbound campaigns, you’d send a pitch up front, or send a LinkedIn request and then pitch, and follow up once or twice, and prospects would hopefully convert.

When you did that, prospects would detect it's automated/salesy, and your reputation would be nuked. You’d have little to no conversions, lost opportunities, and leave a bad taste in your prospects mouth. Gross.

The new way to actually convert someone with an outbound cadence is to use detail and storytelling to craft a cadence that makes sense, is personal/funny, and if read once over, has a clear beginning and end with a notable offer.

When you do this, prospects who usually have their wall up, whether they know it’s automated or not, see that you really tried, AND they resonate with your message, looked you up for your case studies, and are willing to go to the next step with you.

They’re willing to move to that intro call with you because the trust has been established since you put so much detail and thought into your outreach.

Using excruciating detail in your outbound will convert 4X more demos because it stands out and humanizes you and your company.

You can view some example of thoughtful cadences here:

How in depth does this have to go?

Don’t overthink, you’re not filming a movie, but you DO want to think about tangible and creative angles that actually add value and conversion to your sequence.

What if I don’t have an intro/a way in?

Be creative, there are an infinite amount of ideas you can think of that would create a way in to get the prospect to open your email or connect on LinkedIn.

How long does this take to set up?

2-4 days depending on the complexity of your copy.

Step 3 - Create Automated Multi-Channel Outbound Firestorms

To follow up with prospects, you used to just follow up in a lazy way on one channel, use generic language, and it was obvious this was the only place you thought of them.

Once again, prospects detected you did not care about them, or did your research, and that they're just a lead in this particular sequence for you.

The new way of actually conquering lost opportunity through followup is to implement automated, thoughtful, multi-channel touches

When you can accomplish this, prospects can see that, even if they're on a campaign, you put a lot of effort trying to reach out to them, and what you said on each channel connects to the story you originally crafted, increasing conversion for those who simply did not see your original messages and are actually INTRIGUED. You’re essentially planning for the worst case scenario with a detailed contingency plan.

This doesn’t mean following up 30 times, it means using all tools at your disposal to create a logical journey in an automated fashion

When you can launch personalized campaigns on multiple channels with multiple touchpoints, at scale using automation, you can accelerate your ability to convert prospects who are not as willing to trust you, making your outbound strategy a monster that keeps you busy replying to prospects.

See the tech stack we use here:

How much does the Tech Stack Cost?

$280/mo + CRM cost

Can I still send personalized messages with automation?

Yes, both Lemlist and Expandi have great options for personalizing through either images or copy to make your automation appear more authentic.

How long does this take to set up?

2-3 Days depending on your familiarity with Zapier

Can I use other channels besides LinkedIn and Email?

100%. Facebook, instagram, any other channel can be used in conjunction. LinkedIn and Email are simply the easiest to automate, that’s why we start with them.

Step 4 - Fire Off Tripwire Videos to Stand Out + Automate Your Qualification Process

When we talk about outbound campaigns and outreach in general, the normal has always been to send written text.

When the market became saturated, everyone's message became equal, and now there needed to be a new vehicle of getting prospects attention: video

Now when videos were starting to be sent over Linkedin and email, they were manual, custom videos sent to each prospect, which convert REALLY well. These are great for validating your message/offer, or if you have a team of stone cold reps with the time to do this.

But for everyone else in every other situation, that takes WAY too much time. You and I certainly don’t have time for that lol. So what do you do?

The new way of leveraging video is to send an automated personal video that streamlines your lead conversion and intro call.

Sending automated personal videos efficiently builds an INSANE amount of trust with cold leads, makes you stand out above competitors, and saves you hours and hours every week in intro calls.

The framework for this video is as follows:

  1. Intro of yourself + question to prospects

  2. Transitional button to begin application if they’re interested

  3. Application questions

  4. Redirects to signup or book a demo

Example here:

Here’s some stats from one of our Tripwire videos:

Out of 74 Unique visits, 64 answered at least one of the questions, and 21 finished the application. So we saved 15 minutes * 21 = 5 hours and 15 minutes of intro calls.

From this, we booked demos at a rate of 70% (14 Calls Booked).

What’s the best tech stack for this?

VideoAsk. They have everything you need to whip this together in an afternoon and a helpful zapier integration.

Won’t people catch on to what I’m doing?

Yes, the same way they caught on to your written words and didn’t book a call with you. It’s the same hurtle, but like we mentioned earlier, it’s what you’re saying and how you position it that converts. The video is just a super efficient way to do it.

What questions do I ask on the video?

The questions are application questions you would normally ask on an intro call. Example: How big is your company? What are your goals? What are your biggest problems? Etc.

Let’s Review

So, at this point it’s clear that all you need to do is:

-Design a CLEAR Message with a CLEAR Outcome and Prove it with Case Studies Simultaneously

-Use Excruciating Detail with Your Copy and Become an Outbound Engineer

-Create Automated Multi-Channel Followup Firestorms

-Fire Off Tripwire Videos to Stand Out & Automate Your Qualification Process

And you can EASILY 4X your demo generation in 90 days and do it VERY profitably without hiring another SDR or burning money on other channels.

Common Problems with Outbound Engineering

-Founders and even SDRs can attempt to do all of these steps, but they have to spend years mastering the art of humor, creativity and storytelling in copy without any roadmap to start with. They're destined to fail.

-Founders will put together a ton of automated sequences and test what the best setup is (basically just guessing), and get sick of trying after 2 months.

-SaaS founders and execs can test their market message for 10-12 months just to validate if it has any resonance, and STILL be frustrated with its lack of performance.

-So many companies drop $5K+/mo on a marketing agency who doesn’t specialize in outbound or know ANY of this stuff and throw their money into the bonfire, it's insanity.

At Waylan, we help B2B SaaS companies 4X monthly demos in 90 days without hiring a single SDR.

Here’s a bit of our track record:

[SQUAVA] - 6X'd Monthly Demos in 90 Days

[V.One] - 4X'd Monthly Demos in 60 Days

[WeWyll] - From 0% to 20% Cold Email Conversion Rate in 6 Weeks

[Waylan] - 3X'd & 2X'd Monthly Demos in 60 Days Respectively

Our clients have been featured on TechCrunch, Yahoo and

We do this through our:

-Done-For-You Copywriting

-Done-for-You Automation Setup and Maintenance

-Weekly Consulting Calls + Unlimited Offline Support

If you need help landing 30+ Demos/month/seat through outbound, apply to work with us here:

If you're not sure, you can watch our in-depth thesis video here (49 minutes of heat):

Isn’t this spamming?

-100%. Spamming is not bad, unjust or unprofessional. This is a massive misunderstanding. If your product really changes someone's day-to-day, you’ll carve through 95 people who aren't ready to buy it yet for 5 people who genuinely could get value from it. There’s no reason to pigeonhole yourself into burning money on ads, time on blogging, or events and partnerships because you’re AFRAID of spammy

What if I’m not a SaaS?

-This isn’t just SaaS, it works for any higher-ticket service or software. The only thing you need to have is a truly unique product or service, some happy customers and a competitive advantage.

We’re already a big company and are getting clients. Why do I need this?

-Every B2B company that has an addressable market on LinkedIn or email (all of you) should have outbound be one of your arms of marketing. Even huge successful companies trying to make quota use outbound, and some can attribute a large portion of their revenue from its source, it’s just SO profitable. You just need to do it right.

How much does this cost?

-⅓->½ of what you’d usually pay for all of the softwares, consulting, agency help, iterations, automations, copywriting that are required for this to work

Do you guys host all of the software seats? Or do we have to pay for them?

-It’s up to you. We always offer one seat per software under our bill included (Linkedin automation, email automation, lead sourcing, etc.). Some clients prefer to have the control of being under their own roof, and that’s okay too.

Does this work for B2C SaaS?

-This only works profitably with a SaaS charging $200/mo+, so B2C SaaS is typically too cheap to make this model work

How much time does my team and I need to allocate to this if we worked together?

-We need someone from your team on the weekly calls, and we need someone to be replying to your prospects on LinkedIn/email etc. How fast your team responds can vary, but we recommend at least checking in on messages once or twice a day.

Why wouldn’t you just run ads or write content instead of running outbound?

-Efficiency, Affordability, Speed

Do you guys offer calls if I’m outside the U.S?

-Yes, our consultant calls are fairly flexible, and our unlimited offline

support typically makes up for anything missed on a call anyway

How do I know you guys are legit?

-Our case studies and track record.

What do I need to get started?

LinkedIn account, Email

Do we work on the messaging together?

We collaborate on what your company is aiming to do, and then our team constructs the sales argument for you.

Apply here:

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